#170: Running My First Online Group Program with Julia Sarver

Michelle Leotta:
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another one of our Tuesday, Q&A's. And today we're talking about all... everything related to running your first online group program. And today I'm joined by my good friend, Julia Sarver Julia, thank you for being here.

Julia Sarver:
Thank you for having me.

Michelle Leotta:
We love talking online group programs. How many how many programs like that? And I know there's so many different kinds, but how many do you think you've run in your almost, I mean, both of us have now been doing this. I counted we're coming up on 13 years.

Julia Sarver:
Ah, yes. I don't even think I can count Michelle. I mean so many. And yeah, I don't even know if I can count and in so many different sorts of formats, because I've done them as a health coach with clients, I've done them as more of a business strategist for other people. So, I mean, can you count yours? Do you think you even know?

Michelle Leotta:
I don't know. I mean, in my head it's hundreds. I don't know if it's actually hundreds. It may be, it feels like hundreds and they do. They come in so many shapes and forms. And I know that for everybody watching and listening, coaches these days, I feel like we're coming straight out of school thinking, boom, I want to create an online course. And so... and that was not the case. When we, when we graduated, I feel like we almost invented the online group course because it really wasn't a thing.

Julia Sarver:
No, no, it was, it was get together, you know, at the coffee shop or the hotel lobby or the yoga studio. That's what was happening then. Yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
Yes. Yeah. And these days it's like, everyone's already thinking about something that they want to create, which is so cool, which is so cool. And we want to help you get there, but we know that it can be a little bit, it can be a little bit tricky at times, especially when you're like, I don't even know where to begin. And that is typically what I hear. So before we get into any of this, I want to let you know that Julia and I have a webinar coming up on December 1st and we would love for you to join us. Julia, tell us a little bit about what we'll do be doing there.

Julia Sarver:
Well, in that webinar, we're going to be walking through the five steps that you need to take to successfully launch your first online group program. And we're going to be talking about that there. And for me, the first program was a cleanse. So we're going to be walking through how to do that if you're offering a cleanse specifically.

Michelle Leotta:
Awesome. And when we say cleanse, I always like to say this, a cleanse could be like a straight up cleanse. It could be the master cleanse, but it could also be a lot of other things, right?

Julia Sarver:
Yes. And I will say, I have never done the master cleanse and I will never probably do the master cleanse. Um, but one of the things that I think can be really helpful is we have to look at what people are looking for and use the language that they're using. And often the words cleanse or detox or reset. Those can be words that people in our community understand. And so that's why we're teaching this class on how to run a cleanse. Awesome.

Michelle Leotta:
So if you want to learn more of the nuts and bolts and get all of Julia's downloaded specifically around this topic of running a cleanse or a cleanse like program, you can join us. If the register though, is that health coach power.com/cleanse, and we'll hope to see you there, but if we rewind time and go back to our very first online group programs. Oh my goodness. Um, so I know I started with a blank page. Like I could see it on my computer. I opened up word and there was a blank page and I was just like, okay, there's, I'm going to put stuff here. And that's pretty much where it began. Um, and I eventually did get stuff on that page, but it was a little bit painful. Did you have a better process than that?

Julia Sarver:
I think I may have had a better process than that because I, um, I actually did not start my first online group program, which was a cleanse, um, until I had clients, private clients were asking me about a cleanse and all of a sudden people were saying, what do you think about this cleanse? Do you have a cleanse? You offer, oh, I wish you offered a cleanse. And so I started with, wait a minute, what, like, you all want a cleanse? And I thought here's, here's one thing that I think that all of us can do more is that I just thought to myself, well, shoot, I can do, like, I can figure that out. Right? Like there's, I can certainly figure out a way to run a cleanse. And so I ended up contacting my clients and also my newsletter list and saying, Hey, are you interested in this?

Julia Sarver:
And if so, what do you want? You know, if I'm going to make this for you, tell me what you want. And in hindsight, that was actually super brilliant. But at the time I just sort of was like, what do they want? Like, I've no idea how to create a plans. I'm not sure, I guess I should ask them. And so they told me a lot of things. And so even though, yes, of course I started with a blank page and mine was a word page too, which I think is so funny. Um, because now of course I'm all apple. And, um, I started with, what did they want? And what they told me at first was that they really wanted something that was simple. Something that had food that their whole family would eat and also something that they could do in five days. And so that's where I started.

Michelle Leotta:
That is amazing that they gave you that information. So, I love that. I don't think I was so smart. I think I looked at that page...

Julia Sarver:
You're smarter now. That's fine. That was my one really good idea.

Michelle Leotta:
You know, what's that thing and you know, better, you do better. I think what I did though, and it worked out, um, so I want to put this out there for all of you who are thinking, you know, I'd like to run some kind of program, but I don't know how to put it together. I'm going to be staring at a blank page. I just took what I was already doing with my private clients and formalized it, you know, I'm like, you know what, every client's different, but generally these are the things that we're always talking about. Generally these are the different topics. We cover things that make the biggest difference. And I just sort of distilled my private clients down into what I was pretty sure was going to work for the most people and wrote it out in a step-by-step protocol for lack of a better word, instead of, you know, the, the more organic flow of one-on-one coaching.

Michelle Leotta:
And that's how I created my first program. I didn't ask anybody if they wanted it, but if you have been working with clients already, it does kind of give you a leg up because you can say, Hey, I know that this is the thing that always moves the needle. And that's kinda how I, I, I started writing in that blank page was okay, well, first I guess we'll do this. And then I guess we'll do that. And, and then finally we'll do this and, and created those steps. Um, that's like the really super scary part. We think we have to be a big old expert in a topic in order to create a course.

Julia Sarver:
Oh yeah. I can dispel that myth right now because when I offered my detox, I had never done one before. So I did, I was like, oh, well, I better try a couple of before. You know, I really put this out there in the world, but that was actually, this is a little bit of a sidebar, but I want to challenge you all because I actually think it helped that I wasn't an expert, because I could sort of see the flaws in other programs that other programs were too complicated. And so it made me really understand what was missing in the marketplace and what was missing at that time was a very short program that could get people results. But also, you know, everybody told me I want my glass of wine on Saturday night. So I said, fine, we'll do Monday through Friday. And I think if I had been an too much of an expert, I could have gotten caught up in, oh, that's not long enough. They won't get results. They need to do it longer. And what I found was really important was giving them what they wanted, right. So that's, that's how it worked for me.

Michelle Leotta:
That's so smart. And that's the difference between being like nutrition nerds and being smart marketers. You got to give people what they actually want are willing to sign up for. I love that. So when you run your first cleanse, I'll, I'll share my, my story first. And then I want to hear from you when I, when I put together, what I thought was going to probably be this program that people might like to follow. The next thing of course is how to get people signed up. And at the time all I had was a blog, you guys. I really didn't. I had a very basic website. It was basically just a blog. And the only thing I could do was create a new blog post. And so I did, and I announced this event and then I went to PayPal and I figured out how to make a PayPal button.

Michelle Leotta:
And it worked, I couldn't believe it worked, but I took the code from PayPal. I put it into the blog post and boom. There was a place for people to click and pay me. It felt great at the time now. And I think about it, it was a little bit archaic because of course, when somebody sent money, the money went out of their bank account, came to me, nothing else happened until I got back to my computer, whatever that was the next day, or, you know, after I woke up and saw it and then, oh, and then I would send them a confirmation email. I kind of would copy and paste the same text and send it to everybody manually. Um, so there was a lot of like, how the heck do we make work? But what you said earlier is so true, we can always figure something out. Yeah. So how did you sell your first program?

Julia Sarver:
I'm just laughing because even though it's archaic, like we could still do that. Now, if we had to right? Like, if we're still starting out perfectly fine to do it. And, and also looking back, that was a long time ago for both of us. So I did, I did it a little bit differently. I actually did a pre-sale and I told people I did it a couple different ways. I, um, but the very first time I did it, I was using a newsletter program at the time that allowed you to create events. And so I created an event which had its own unique URL, so I could share it on social, but I could also send it out via my newsletter. And then I did the same thing as you, as I went into PayPal, I figured out how to create a code. I did the, got the email link for the code, put it on my, put it on the page, the event page that I had there.

Julia Sarver:
But I also said to people, and again, I think this in hindsight, this was very smart at the time. I didn't really know how smart it was. I said, okay, all of you said, you want this pay me first. I said, it way nicer than that, obviously. So I said, you know, like, Hey, you know, here's the deadline by which to register. And then the program starts two weeks after now. Here's where I was not as smart as Michelle. I sort of, wasn't sure that people were actually going to start sign up, but as they started signing up, I thought, oh, I better get something together. Like now I actually have to create the content. So I had a much shorter window to be able to create the content. And I decided that what people really needed was a recipe guide. They needed a shopping list that they could just print and then go to the store and not think about it.

Julia Sarver:
And then they needed some kind of handbook that said, you know, what is the detox? Why do we detox? What foods are allowed, what's not allowed. And then a protocol. And that's, that was all I offered at the time, but I did it that way. And I ended up having 37 people in the first time I offered it, which, you know, made it worth it. That was the most money I had made from a group program at that point, or sort of in one big chunk. And that felt really great to say, okay, this work, here's this program that they want and now let's deliver it and see what happens. Yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
And how many of you would love to have 37 people sign up for like literally anything that you were to offer? So I want to talk more about how we got people to actually sign up, but also we're open for your questions. So if you're here, live with us, run your ideas by us, or pick our brains about how this process went. Because when I talk about how I run a program now, and I think you would agree, like the problem with you guys, learning from what people are doing now, when their businesses have grown and we have large mailing lists and we have enough money to put into using fancy programs is you see it as this very polished hire and offering. That's not how we started and it's not how you need to start. And if you think that's how you're going to start, you're probably not going to start at all because it's a little bit unattainable at first, doing things a little bit more down and dirty is how you get going.

Julia Sarver:
I'm a huge fan of quick and dirty to see if something works like there is, it's worth it to just try it and see. And if we do, you know, if we try to emulate the big names or people who have, you know, hundreds of thousands of people on their list, sometimes we never get to that point of even finding out because we put so much energy into trying to make it perfect and then nothing ever comes out and that, but that's not what we want for you. We want you all to have something out there that's working and helping people. And I have to say, you know, 37 clients for me now, that's not a huge number of clients anymore, but at the time that was the, yeah. And it was the first time I realized, oh, this could work because I've been doubting myself. I'll be really honest. I've been doubting myself the whole way. I've had a handful of private clients. I was trying to figure out how am I going to get more private clients? But when that happened, I was like, okay, this is an actual game changer. Like now I can see how to do this. So did you have that same thing?

Michelle Leotta:
It definitely blew my mind that I can make as much money as I did. So what happened with mine was I, I promoted it to my following that I had at the time. So, I had a mailing list. Um, I had been blogging regularly, very helpful, right? So I was set up for success in some ways. But I also partnered with a yoga studio that I was teaching at at the time. And so, you know, I just did a couple classes a week there, but I spoke to the owner and I said, could I run this program here at the studio? So I sold spots in real life at the studio with real people who would come in and meet with me and at the exact on the exact same timeline, I sold spots virtually, which again was almost unheard of at the time. But I had people register who lived, you know, wherever they lived across the country or across the world and collected money that way. So in the end, total in this program, I had 60 participants and it was about half and half. So it looks like we had about the same number of people coming from like our own organic audience versus, you know, what I got through the yoga studio. But for me working with 60 people at one time, I was like, oh my God.

Julia Sarver:
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
It's a lot of people too, even just for the administration, you know, oh, I didn't get that email. Can you resend it? This kind of stuff. And just to, you know, get to know and understand them and have conversations. It was a lot of people, but I was shocked that I could a) reach that many people with this, you know, one block of time and that I could make as much money as I did.

Julia Sarver:
Yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
And it wasn't, uh,it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be, you know, once I got going, people were so enthusiastic. It was fantastic. So, um, a lot of people are talking about these numbers, like, how did you get 37? Um, someone said, I'd be happy if I had 10.

Julia Sarver:
Yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
Megan says, been doing this for six years and doing groups with 100 to 300 signups per group upping my price in 2022, because I'm adding a ton of content. And I'm really nervous. Any advice? If you're getting, if you're easily selling spots in something, it's an excellent indicator that it's time for you to double your price.

Julia Sarver:
I agree. And also, Megan, you're saying you're adding value, right? It's one thing to keep it exactly as it is. And sometimes it is the right choice to actually increase the price. Because one thing that Michelle was just saying that I've also experienced is that sometimes you don't realize how much energy and time it takes to support that many people. Right? Like maybe you're like, this is the right price and you run it and then you think, oh my God, that was not the right price. Like that was not enough. I didn't realize it was going to take that much work. And I certainly did increase my prices too with my detox program over time. But I think Megan, you know, you just said, you're going to add values. So then to me, that actually seems like a pretty good, um, reason to tell people here's why I'm right. Raising the price. Do you agree?

Michelle Leotta:
I completely agree. And I'm really excited that you shared that Megan, because so many other coaches are like, I can't do this. It's not going to work. Laurie is asking, so if you're just starting and have a following, that is non-responsive. Do you still put out a group? Let's talk about if you're first starting out and maybe you have no mailing lists, a small mailing list. Right? I mean, I generally advise that if you shouldn't like, come out guns blazing with like your $3,000 online program, when you have no mailing list, I mean, it's just, it's not going to sell, but that doesn't mean that you can't do anything. You just have to think about it in terms of scale. How would I do this if only one person signed up, two people signed up, how would I do this? If 20 people signed up, you know? And, and then you're going to market yourself quite a bit differently than you would if you had that big, big mailing list. Yeah. Um, so talk about what you did and that did that 37, and then we'll talk about, you know, what someone could do now.

Julia Sarver:
So I had a fairly small newsletter list at the time, and I did not really have a blog. I cause again, you guys, this was back when man websites were archaic and you would have to submit like, it was a lot of work at that time. So I, um, did a couple of different things. I obviously emailed my newsletter list and I did that thing where I said, hey, are y'all interested in this? A lot of people wrote back and said, yes, I am interested. And I thought, okay, that was when I said, tell me what you want. And then I created the program. I did something actually similar on my Facebook profile, my personal profile, not my business, where I said, I'm thinking about creating a short whole foods-based detox, is anyone interested? Cause I really wasn't sure. And on that one too, a bunch of people said me, me, me, me, me.

Julia Sarver:
So, then what I did is I tracked all the people who said they were interested. So that obviously was my group of my warmest leads. And those were the people who I followed up with the most to say, okay, great. I'm going to do it, mark your calendar for dates. That was the first message I sent. Cause I didn't have, I didn't know what I was including yet. I didn't have the PayPal link yet, but I just, I didn't want them to think I had forgotten about them. So I got back to them right away saying, here are the dates stay tuned. Then once I had everything else figured out, I said, oh, here you go. Here's the information I'd love to see you join. And then I basically just tracked it in a spreadsheet. In addition to, you know, I posted it on social.

Julia Sarver:
I sent it to my newsletter, but this is actually something that I talk about as the, your magic tracking list. And it works especially well, when you're getting started, just make a list of 30 people who you can invite, right? You can send them some and Michelle, you, and I've talked about this so many times and I know you encourage people to do this too, but personal invites, shoulder tap invites like, Hey, excuse me, would you be interested? People respond really well to that. And I'll even if I'm offering something high-end now or really one-on-one now that's how I still invite people because there are certain people who I think could be good fits for certain programs. So I just invite them personally. And it's kind of funny because I think that can feel a little too scary sometimes. But I have to say, there are ways you can word it so that it's just saying, Hey, I'm starting this thing. Do you know anyone who might be interested instead of saying you need it? Which that cannot always go over so well. Right?

Michelle Leotta:
Exactly. Especially when we're talking about health issues, you might not want to call somebody out on it. I do hear a lot of coaches... Because I teach this technique inside healthy profit university. I have shared this with all of you many times that one-to-one outreach is really the fastest way for you to sign paying clients, whether it's your one-on-one coaching or you're selling a group. So, you might think a little secret behind the scenes. You might think that online courses are always sold through a sales page. You know, we send out an big email blast point at a sales page and that's where we make all the sales. I mean, yes, some sales come that way, that way, for sure. But quietly on the other side, what you don't see is a lot of this, one to one outreach going on to pursue that, you know, we're going to be interested, like you just said, and you can start by making that list of 20 or 30 people to get started. Yep. So that's awesome. And I agree with you. This is a technique you'll keep using. It's not just when you're first starting out, but it's kind of all you have when you're first starting out. If you don't have the big mailing list and you don't give up, you know, your own podcast or whatever, this is how you're going to reach people. What do you say to somebody who's like, I don't want to bother my friends and family asking them to join my thing. That's not how I want to market myself.

Julia Sarver:
Well, I've, I've gotta be real curious how that person plans to market themselves otherwise, because I think, you know, you just said, that's the only way that you have to market yourself when you're starting out. And I think sometimes when it's, when we only have the one way we, somehow we can diminish it, right? We can think it's not a useful way or a good way. And it's absolutely the most powerful way to get people to work with you. And I understand that it can feel very nerve wracking to put yourself out there. One of the things that I learned for myself was that when I created my detox program and created this separation of me from my business, right, like sometimes when we're offering private coaching, that feels like, hello, I am offering you myself. And that can feel really like, ah, what if they don't like me?

Julia Sarver:
And, and it can feel really emotional and scary and hard. But what I found was that when I created a product where I could just say, I'm creating, I've created this detox. Do you know anyone who might be interested? Then if people said no, then it was like, oh, like, okay, it's not that they don't like me. They just don't need that product. I know that maybe sounds a little bit funny, but that made a huge difference for me. I don't know. I don't know if you had that as well. You had a mom who like always told you, you could do anything. So maybe that crossed your mind. But for me, I was, I was like, oh, maybe they won't like me, but it, it created a little separation.

Michelle Leotta:
Yes. I agree. I think the more I've run programs created true products, things like that. I mean, even now to sell one on one coaching, that's just another product, but in the beginning, oh my God, it feels so personal. And you take it so personally. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree with you. If you don't want to sell this way, it's going to be real interesting. Trying to figure out how you will sell when you're, when you're starting out. Do you have money for a billboard? Like what are you planning?

Julia Sarver:
Do you have money for ads? Do you have, I mean, all of that and even a billboard or ads, you need to have a proven product. Like any, any business coach or ads, person worth their value is going to say, I will not. I'm not going to work with you to amplify your message until you have a product that's proven. And I think that's, what's really nice about running something like this. An online program is you can do it this way. You can do this shoulder, tap personal invite and just get 10 people and see, does this even work? Let's find out.

Michelle Leotta:
Yeah, exactly. If it doesn't work. Oh, well didn't spend any money. Oh, well only told a couple of people about it. I could just pretend that never happened. You know, it's a really nice way to dip your toe in. So again, I want to invite all of you to join Julia and I for a webinar dedicated on teaching you how to run a cleanse specifically, whether your cleanse is a gluten-free cleanse or the Keto cleanse or the vegan cleanse or whatever it is, you know, it doesn't matter. It's always going to be the same process. And we're doing that on December 1st, you can sign up to join us. It's free at healthcoachpower.com/cleanse. We have a couple of questions that I think we should hit. Awesome. So this one's from Michael. He says... He's asking about the differences in obtaining clients for a scheduled start date program versus an evergreen program.

Julia Sarver:
Oh, I have a lot of feelings about this, so here's my take. You can have it be evergreen. And it's so funny you brought this up Michael. Cause I was thinking in the back of my head like Michelle, we really need to, like, we need to tell them all the secret about evergreen too, because the idea is that it just sits on your website and it sells. And that's not really how evergreen works. You actually have to launch to evergreen in some way. Evergreen just really means that you, as the practitioner are not delivering live content, the content is already there.

New Speaker:
So that's totally another sidebar, but we should talk about that at some time. But um, I really feel like running it. I always did it in a certain week. And the reason I did that is because it built momentum. It built excitement.

Julia Sarver:
But the other thing that I think people don't realize that makes a huge difference is that you need to give the people in your, in your following and your audience a reason to say yes or no and saying no is okay. The worst place for them to stay stuck is in the land of maybe or next time later. Yes. I made this mistake, Michael. I made this mistake the first time because I had 37 people and I was like, woo. And then a bunch of people said, I couldn't make that one. Can I come to the next month? And I was like, okay, then I had 40. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be rich. Like I was so convinced that that was going to continue forever. And then y'all the third month, no one signed up. I offered it and not one person.

Julia Sarver:
And I realized what happened was I, it was becoming too common and it was becoming too available. And it didn't because people then were thinking like, oh, I can get it at any time. Well then they didn't buy it ever. And occasionally someone will come and purchase a detox from me occasionally from that sort of evergreen model. But when I really got focused on, okay, this is the week it's happening four times a year, mark, your calendars. It's coming this time. Here is the door open date. Here is the door closed date. Um, that was when my number went from 37 to like a hundred every time because people had to decide, do you have feelings about this too?

Michelle Leotta:
100% agree. Evergreen sounds so good and it can work, but it is hard. It is harder. And I would not even think about it. I wouldn't even dream about it unless you've been doing it live for a while. Then you can start to segue and look and kind of learn the nuances of selling evergreen. So, I mean, and I do both and they're, they're kind of different beasts and they require different technology. And um, I don't know where you are in your practice right now, Michael, but for most coaches listening, start with the live start date, you know, a set week, like Julia said, you know, or however many weeks your program's going to be, and it's going to sell much better when you have that deadline, people need a deadline or else they're just going to go, I'll do it next time.

Julia Sarver:
I'll do it if the diet starts Monday, but that happens forever. And I think, you know, one of the other reasons I feel like this is important is because the, the kind of community that was created in my detoxes was pretty incredible. And just, you know, five days people became friends and then I would be able to see it and say, here's when the next one's going to be. Or here's the next program. People were excited about it. And then they would bring people from their lives to the next one. So I actually had a significant amount of organic growth that I would not have had if it had been only evergreen.

Michelle Leotta:
I have a question here from Megan. She said, do you recommend having clients do your group programs before they do one-on-one? And I think it really kind of depends what the program is and how it fits into the scheme of things. But how have you seen it work? Well when you're offering one-on-ones but also group programs.

Julia Sarver:
So I would often include a detox program with my one-on-one coaching. It was, it was like a bonus. I didn't do it separately with them. I just would say whenever the next one is you, your, you know, the fact that you're working with me, one-on-one lets you join that for free. So I did that for a couple of reasons. One, it wasn't a high cost item, so it was easy for me to gift that to people. And it also sort of helped me bump up the prices of one-to-one coaching because I could say, oh, well you also get this and you also get this. But two, it was great because then the people in there in the group would say like, oh, private coaching with Julia. So great. So that would help support my private coaching business. But then after they were done with private coaching, they had had the experience of the detox and then they would come back to that. So they would still stay in, in my business. Right. They were still paying customers. So that's kind of how I looked at it. Is that what you did or did you do something different?

Michelle Leotta:
I felt like I often had people who would only do a lower cost group program and they were never going to do anything else. And then I had people who would see me. This is always interesting to me. I would advertise this online group program and you know, maybe do a whole little launch, a little blitz about it. And people would contact me kind of over here on the side and go, Hey, I saw you're running that thing. I don't want to join a group, but I would like to work with you one-on-one and I'm like,

Julia Sarver:
Oh, I had that too. So I also had, and that was actually Megan, that was a surprise for me because I, when I launched my detox, it was at a point where I was like, I'm having, you know, I feel like I've worked through all the people. I know I don't have any more private clients coming in. Then there were all these people who kept coming back to the detox and I would ask them, do you want to work with me privately? And they were like, Nope, no, like, this is, this is, this is where I want to be. And I was like, oh, because I kind of, I love coaching. So like I sort of was like, you don't love it like I do, but I had that same experience too.

Michelle Leotta:
So funny. I have one more question that I think is a really good one for us to end on. Laurie's asking, are detox is the best choice for a group program. And what I want to say, Lori is that there are so many different types of programs that you can run. But I usually think of them in like one of two categories as a health coach, you can run a program that has a set plan or protocol. Everyone who joins like these are the steps we're going to take together. Here's what we're going to do. Right? You're laying it out for them. It's like a process or you can run group programs are more amorphous, more like private coaching is where you're doing small group coaching. You can be doing it online. You're going to show up, what do you need today? What's important for us to talk about. And it happens really organically, both are solid options, but a detox. I think when we use the term detox or cleanse, we're kind of using it as an umbrella statement for a program that has a protocol of some kind.

Julia Sarver:
Right. That it has some rules. And also, you know what I like about a detox and I will say that, and you all may borrow it. This I use, I always say, hit the reset button on your eating habits. The reason that I say that is, is most people know what that means, right? And they also, with the detox, they really understand what it is. And I like it because it has a start and an end, there's a clear understanding of what you're going to get. There's a clear understanding of what the transformation might be. And also, you know, like I said, I love coaching. I'm always in a million coaching programs cause I'm really interested in it. And some of them have very specific goals and others are more amorphous. There's not a right or a wrong, you just want to think about what is, what does my business need? And for me, the detox was the perfect entry point for people to have an opportunity to work for me, work with me, I mean. And then also it let people sort of understand what I did. And so my referral network because of detox is so clear, grew very rapidly after I added it.

Michelle Leotta:
So interesting. So there's so many opportunities out there. There's so many different courses that you can create in your practice. I mean, I feel like whether you're writing it for free to build your list, you're doing it to earn some money. You're doing it as a way to increase that referral network. I mean, there's so many benefits to running something like this. So even if you're not sold on, no, I want to run a cleanse in my business. I want to encourage you to join us on December 1st for Julia's how to run a cleanse webinar, because you will learn how to run a program that follows some kind of process as some sort of rules. And you can then take that and make it fit, you know, whatever is right for you, your business and your target market. So the URL again for that is healthcoachpower.com/cleanse. And we will see you there. And Julia, thank you again for being here today. I love going down memory lane with you.

Julia Sarver:
I know. It's so funny and I can't believe we have almost 26 years between us to do that. We don't look at though, right, everybody?

Michelle Leotta:
Not a day over 11 years in the business. Wonderful to see you and we'll see you soon in a couple of weeks.

Julia Sarver:
Sounds good. Thank you.

Michelle Leotta:
Bye.

Julia Sarver:
Bye.