#176: Top Coaching Mistakes & How To Fix Them (Part 1)

Health coaches tend to lack confidence in their coaching abilities. We think, “Can we REALLY help clients?” In the first of this 2-part series Michelle and Katey tackle WHY coaches are making mistakes and some of the most common.

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Michelle Leotta:
Hello there Health coaches. We are so happy to be here with you today. We're laughing because we just got a very small but important piece of technology to work. So, we are live streaming. We're so glad that you could join us and you hear live with us. If you're listening later, hello! Today we're gonna be talking coaching itself, not the marketing of, not the business of, but the actual act of coaching our clients. And we wanna confront some of the top mistakes that are being made out there and that, oh, trust me. I have made all of them myself. I'm gonna talk about how to fix them. And for today's episode, I'm joined by Katie Caswell. Hey, Katie.

Katie Caswell:
Hey, how are you doing Michelle?

Michelle Leotta:
I'm doing great now. Yes. I feel like I could take on the world. That's what you get when there's a quick win. Ah, we should talk about those. Just a little coaching joke you guys. So if you are here, live with us and you have any questions as we go along, I do have my eye over here on the comment section and I can see that Patricia's here and Winnifred is here and Sunshine is here. She's meal prepping while listening. That is brilliant. I love it. Katie, can you give everyone just a little bit of background on who you are? You may already know Katie by the way you guys, because she is an admin inside of our Health Coach Power Community group. But how much do you really know about Katie?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah, so, I've been a health coach for, oh, I don't know, 12, 11, 10, some, something like that. You stopped counting after a while. Don't you? I fell into help coaching after having a big life change myself, I lost like 120 pounds. Saw the benefit of, you know, feeding your body, paying attention to things rather than that whole Western medicine kind of thing. And it kind of suited my personality. People have always come to me with, how do I do this? How do you figure this out? And I think most of us in the health coaching community do have that kind of a background. We come from a place of empathy. We come from a place of wanting to how did Mr. Rogers put it? Be a helper. So, that's where I'm coming from. And I've coached in a variety of, of scenarios. I coached for a very large help coaching company, where I had a, a team of clients that were over 300 and I, a lot of one on one sessions with a lot of clients over the past 10 years, I've worked in small groups a little bit, all over the place. I've helped out other coaches who are trying to, you know, figure out exactly how this thing works. Um, so I've seen a whole lot of growth and possibility. Oh, and I'm what it's that N N B, uh, I'm certified nationally certified.

Michelle Leotta:
Board certified.

Katie Caswell:
Initial's wrong all the time. Michelle. I don't know

Michelle Leotta:
That's ok, everybody does every single person I talk to. So if you're someone who knows the initial's good for you guys, but nobody else does. Yeah. So you've got all the things you've been coaching a long time. I've been coaching for 13 years. We got a lot to talk about today. And I also wanna let you guys know that we are going to be hosting a free training to talk about the art of coaching, right? Table talk about what you might be doing wrong. And then we're gonna talk about how to really do things the right way, including what to do during that first client session. Right, Katie? That's gonna be part of that training. Yes, absolutely. So if you'd like to sign up for that free training, you guys coming up in a couple of weeks, you can go to healthcoachpower.com/artofcoaching.

Michelle Leotta:
And I'm gonna drop that right here in the chat. So you can click on it. Otherwise, if you're just listening again, it's healthcoachpower.com/artofcoaching. We wanna help you master the art and build your confidence. The reason this came up as such an important topic, and by the way, like Diane saying, thanks for having this chat. Other people saying this is a much needed conversation. I know. Meanwhile, if you think about it, we all went to school to become health coaches. We graduated. You would think, I mean, I thought that by the time I was done with school, I would know how to do this health coaching thing. But in fact, it's very scary. And I remember feeling like I don't know what to do at all. And that's what I'm hearing from. So many of you, you know, you're in and you're out as all the health coaching schools keep graduating more coaches. No one seems to know what the heck to do during our sessions. So Katie, what's going wrong. Why do you think so many coaches are graduating and yet don't know how to do the thing?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. I had the exact same, exact same experience. I sat down for my first session to prep and I'm like, what am I gonna do, dug, through all my, IIN notes. I'm like, is there a, is there a format? What, what do I do? And I think just in life, we've become so accustomed to someone telling us what to do, whether it's in our job or through school here, professor says here, this is what I want you to do. Or this is what I want you to hand in. You know, we've kind of lost that ability, not to think for ourselves, but to say, yes, this is where I'm starting. And then this is what comes next. So obviously I'm sure everyone's health coach school gave them an outline. This is how you should conduct sessions. Here are some handouts. Here are some ideas.

Katie Caswell:
Here are some things that you wanna cover. Obviously you wanna get your, your people off sugar. You wanna do go to this healthy lifestyle circle of life. There's all these things that they tell you, but they don't organize it for you. So we feel lost. And we sit down with our client and in the back of our head, we think this person expects me to know everything I have to have, have every answer in the world. I have to be Google. Like I have to be Google sitting in front of this person for one hour. And we can't see that. I mean, we can have Google if we're doing it remote, we can have Google over on the side. Um, but we've lost that ability to say, Hey, that's a really great question. I'm not sure of the answer. I'm gonna get back to you on that one, cause I wanna give you the right information or we've even lost the ability to question. Well, that's a really great question, but is it the question that you need an answer for right now?

Michelle Leotta:
Ah, I love that, right? That is a coach's question to not answer what they're actually asking. Oh my God. Okay. So if you guys who are here live, if you resonate with any of this, just tell us in the comments, say, yeah, me too. Yeah, I've been there. Yep. I've been sitting in front of a client and wondering, am I even getting through to this person? Have they tuned out? what am I just Google? Ah, it is so frustrating. And I hear variations of this all the time, Katie. So I know that we're speaking to a lot of the coaches out there. I just wanna press on this a little harder. You said that, you know, probably most people graduate from school with some type of outline. Did you guys get outlines? Did you? I mean, I'm not saying that, uh, you should.

Michelle Leotta:
I'm just curious because I actually, I always assumed everybody got outlined. Sometimes I think you guys are graduating and don't get anything on how to actually coach clients cause everyone's coming from different schools, right? And I don't have a list, but I should probably keep a list here of what everybody gets upon graduation. I know I had um, 12 session outlines given to me from IIN, which is where I graduated from in 2009. And they were hilarious. They were like week eight Iveta week, nine blood sugar diet. And it's nothing like how I coach now. Okay. DeeAnne saying yes to all of this, Diane says absolutely. Winnifred said the hardest part is getting started. Leanne said no outline, but they did practice a lot at functional medicine coaching academy. Um, Jennifer says at HCI they get outlines.

Michelle Leotta:
So, we're all coming to it with something. And yet there seems to be this giant gap between where we, you know, are and like actually feeling comfortable just to show up for our client session, you know, like no preparation, you just hop on the line with someone and be able to change their day or change their week or change their whole life. Uh, this is the power that is like in a really strong coaching relationship. So, uh, Katie, you said some thing already and I wanna circle back to it about feeling like we have to know everything. How many of you have felt like, I don't know enough. Just, just say it in the comments. I feel like I don't know enough. There's gonna be like a hundred people saying that because we all feel like we don't know enough. Like yeah. We're supposed to just be like the walking embodiment of Google. So that's gonna be mistake. Number one is thinking that we need to know everything. Katie, do you wanna talk about that a little more?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. Um, you, you don't have to know everything because you physically can't and isn't that what we try and coach our clients on. No, you can't be perfect because you can't, you can't entirely give up sugar for the rest of your life and not have it snuck to you in the smallest little bit when your grandma comes and says, just eat this coldest law for me, you know, it it's impossible to be perfect. So we are not going to be perfect. So when we sit down in a session and whether you're sitting behind a camera or whether you're sitting across from a client, you have to lose that. You have to lose that feeling of needing to be perfect of needing to know everything. And you're really doing it. Your clients, a huge favor, if you are able to do that, because that's what you're asking them to do. You're asking them to let go of their preconceived notions and be open to learning, open, to listening, open to taking the next step that they obviously don't know, because if they knew how to take the next step without you, they wouldn't be sitting across from you, right?

Michelle Leotta:
I think this comes up a lot. I'm trying to think of scenarios, you know, like where this has happened to me. And one of the most painful ones for me in the beginning would be talking to a client and they mention that they have a certain condition that I have never heard of. So, could we just use that as an example?

Katie Caswell:
Yes. Yes. All right.

Michelle Leotta:
So, let's say we're in a client session and I'm, I'm the client and you're the coach and I'm saying, well, my ulcerative colitis is really kicking up lately and you don't know what that is. So how would you handle that?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. So I would ask them to tell me a little bit more about that? You know, diagnoses are great. Western medicine is phenomenal for giving us a title, a category, a classification, but what does it actually mean to you to have this condition? Cause you know, we're misdiagnosed all the time. So, maybe that's not even the right diagnosis, but I wanna help you by knowing what ulcerative colitis means to you. What are you going through each day? How are you feeling? What would you like to change about how you feel? So, titles and diagnoses are not particularly important. But, knowing how that diagnosis affects you, you both physically and mentally, are you now labeling yourself? Oh, I have ulcerative colitis and Google tells me that, you know, I have to make sure there's a bathroom around all the time. Like you, you become someone, you become your disease, right? So I love to pull people away from their diagnosis, just from the get go and just ask them, how would I affects them and how they'd like to change that because that's what I can help them with as a health coach.

Michelle Leotta:
I love that. And honestly, every disease condition and that they're all, it's all just saying something is off and I'm having problems, right? Just at the heart of it. It's all the same. So, and when someone knows, maybe there's things they quote should be doing to, for their health, but they're not doing it. It doesn't actually matter what the condition is or how they've been diagnosed. I think this takes a giant load off when it comes to everyone worrying about their scope of practice. Would you agree?

Katie Caswell:
I absolutely. I hate seeing that and, and, and I know that it's a big thing and maybe it's because of liability, but don't go beyond your scope of practice. Someone has a client, they really wanna help them, but they ask a question in a Facebook group, maybe where they say, how can I help someone heal their, this? And there's a lot of scope police. I call that, just jump on and say, oh, we can't do that. And, but if you would simply rephrase the question, I have a client who's experiencing this and I'm not really sure what their next step should be. You'd get a hundred answers about how to help your client take that next step to feel better, to think of themselves as a different person. So, I think a lot is in the labels and the titles where we get hung up,

Michelle Leotta:
Um, who said this? Leanne said, is it okay to flat out admit you don't know a diagnosis, but that you're going to check on it?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah, I think so. I'm not really familiar with that. I think that my brother sister's cousin's uncle had something like that, but, if you tell me a little bit more about it, maybe that will register. I actually tell people that I try not to memorize disease names and what they are, because then that gives me a preconceived notion about how that can diagnosed condition is affecting them. So, like I turn that to my advantage. You know what, I don't know what that's called. I'm really not up on the, on the names, but I'm really great with conditions. Tell me what you're experiencing. Let's move on from that let's move forward from that place, you know, just trying to shift their thinking the tiniest little

Michelle Leotta:
Bit, I mean, and also you were right what you said earlier. So often someone's diagnosis isn't even core wrecked or complete or properly tested for. So I mean, it's kind of like, who cares? You know, it's just, something's wrong and how do you feel? And also how are you feeling emotionally and mentally about it? Right. We help our clients more than just with the straight up diagnosis or whatever itself, but all the stuff around it. Yes. And our life and our feelings. Um, Patricia saying, I have spent lots of time and understanding information then realizing I'm not a doctor and there's so much involved with a person's health. It scared me to make a mistake. Recently I did an edigram profile and found out that I focused on minute details of my passion. Now I know that I don't have to know it all. Yes! And maybe it would be helpful to step back out of the minute details and look at the bigger picture.

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. I think once you know, that that's something you tend to do. You can both use it to your advantage. Okay. Where can the minuteness help me in my health coaching? And also am I doing that? Maybe I do need to step back. So that's a case where like knowing something and I'm, I'm not a hundred percent familiar with the anagram labels. Um, but very helpful to know that this is something that you do and how it can help and how you want to kind of move away from it when you need to.

Michelle Leotta:
So let's move on to mistake. Number two, another one that I have surely made and many of you have as well. And I feel like it's more and more prominent lately. I don't know what's happening at all the different health coaching schools, but Katie and I have discussed this at length. Everybody's graduating as a health coach, thinking that they have become a health educator and that their role is to teach. Maybe this has to do with social media and being influencers and sharing, you know, our expertise in that manner. But as actual coaches working with the client, Katie, you wanna talk about the difference between being an educator and being a coach?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. Um, I used to work at a, at a small elementary school and the principal was asking everyone in the office one day, what do you think makes a great teacher? And, and I gave her an answer and actually I gave her the answer for what makes a great coach. And it's being able to speak to, you know, 30 people in a classroom, 30 people in a group coaching section, hearing what people need and responding to that. And that's coaching right? Teaching is I have this material. I need to put it together in a way that everyone is going, that's gonna be pretty. That's going to be presentable. That's gonna be well received, but there's no checking about whether it's helping someone move forward. So, I could do a really great presentation on the dangers of sugar, but if it doesn't help my client, except the fact that all the sugar that they're eating is a problem, or even if they've accepted that fact based on my presentation, if it doesn't help them make changes, then I've educated them. And that's, that's great. That's a piece, that's a step, but I haven't coached them. I haven't helped them become their best self because they're still feeling like they're at the mercy of sugar. That the chocolate just calls to them and they don't have a choice.

Michelle Leotta:
And now they just feel worse about it.

Katie Caswell:
Yes, yes. Now I know all the problems about the thing that I thought was bad. Yep. And that's exactly. I feel like we do do that sometimes. Right? When we're only educating and we're not looking at the person in front of us, um, everyone has a different path. Everyone's starting in a different place. So when you're coaching, you're listening to that. You're hearing where they are and you toss in a little bit of education, right? So if someone says, I know I eat too much sugar and you ask them how much sugar do you eat? Why do you think you wanna eat less sugar? Oh, you think you're gonna feel better? Well, how about we try that? Oh, I've tried, well, what's gone wrong with that in the past. Right? So there's a whole lot of back and forth and listening to what they're saying, not coming up with, okay. This is the best thing that I can tell them about sugar. Cause maybe it is the best thing, but it's not, not the best thing for them. That individualization for the, for your audience. That's a big part of coaching that is not part of educating.

Michelle Leotta:
Right. It really is a different role. And so Patricia's saying I like teaching and giving information. Oh well it's not that we can't or we don't. I definitely explain to my autoimmune clients, why taking gluten out of their diet is really important when it comes to auto immunity. There's a little bit of science that they have to understand, right? Yeah. But that's like 5% of our session, right? Cause the more useful thing is now what are we gonna do with that information? How can that apply? What are the pitfalls? How are you feeling about this? Right. And um, sometimes information is the opposite of coaching, right? Like we just said, if I tell you everything, that's terrible about eating sugar, that I've informed you. I have given you information now you feel worse. Now you feel like you should never do it. You might in my backfire, you might end up eating more sugar.

Michelle Leotta:
Yeah. Because you're feeling so restricted. Whereas I know like for example, with a lot of the clients that I work with in my private practice, they they're like perfectionist type a women. And sometimes part of coaching them is going, so what you ate some sugar. I want you to eat more sugar today. Like it's not that big of a deal. We have to like help people with their behavior and their, their mental patterns. Right. More than we have to teach them all the things. Right. So we have some comments coming in. I'm gonna read them. Okay. Sunshine says, this is my issue. I started off going to school to become an educator and switched to health coaching. And I need to reprogram to be a partner and walk alongside the client instead of teaching and giving homework. Yeah. yes, yes. And nobody wants homework. Right? You tell someone that you're them homework. It's likely that they're not going to do it. And then we're like, why aren't my clients doing the things I told them to do? And they're like, oh, it sounds like work. I don't wanna do this anymore.

Katie Caswell:
Your type a clients. Don't like the homework, Michelle. I feel like my type a clients. They do like that homework because they can check a box or they have a product. No, yours aren't like that?

Michelle Leotta:
No. They're too busy , right? It's like one more thing that they're gonna like drop the ball on because they're, they're spinning so many things. Patricia says I have 30 plus years as a trauma therapist, I have difficulty switching habits and mindset to coaching. I'm not sure what all those differences would be between being a therapist and being a coach. But there, like with teaching, there's gonna be some overlap and there's is gonna be some things that are not overlapping in those two roles. Right?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. I guess what I would just quickly wanna ask those two ladies is, have you ever been coached? Have you ever hired a coach so that you could be on the other side of it so that you can spell out the differences for yourself rather than reading in a book? Oh, this is what I have to stop doing from an educator. And like have you ever been coached? Like, that's a question.

Michelle Leotta:
That is a good question for everybody. Even in so far as that whole belief that no one's ever going to pay me for this. Well, have you ever paid anyone for this? It's a good way to shift the energy around a lot of things in your coaching practice to hire your own coach. So, um, I'm gonna move on to mistake number three. But before I do that, I wanna remind you guys that we do have a free training coming up in just a couple weeks called Master the Art of Coaching and Build your Confidence. And you can sign up for free to learn more from myself and from Katie at healthcoachpower.com/artofcoaching about a couple people saying I've never had an experience being coach or Diane says I'm about to sign up with a coach. It's a great way to learn. I think it will be. I really do.

Katie Caswell:
Yes, yeah.

Michelle Leotta:
So, what was that example earlier? Katie? We were just riffing and then I said, oh, that's such a good question because you, the question that they said something and then you didn't answer now my mind is blanking. What happened? You guys? It was something that we just said a few minutes ago where Katie didn't answer the, the client's question. And instead came back with like another question, right? Is that the question you really need to be asking right now is what you said? Yes. Okay. So like let's pretend again that I'm the client and I'm like, yeah. What are all the things that have gluten, Katie, tell me that information. And then maybe you turn that around and ask me like...

Katie Caswell:
Yeah. So I would say, you know what, there's a million resources out there that are gonna identify. I'd rather spend our time maybe talking about what you're most concerned about. Is there something that's in your diet that you think might contain gluten, that you're getting a little nervous that you might have to give up? Right? So, then that personalizes it. I'm not saying I'm not gonna tell you what has gluten in it. But I, I mean, I can spend half an hour reading a list off of Google and the, they could spend the time the same, the same doing the same thing rather than paying me to read for them.

Michelle Leotta:
Right. So, what they're asking, what has gluten in it and what you're hearing? Yes. As a coach is I have some concerns. I may have some specific concerns. And so this brings us to mistake number three, which is all about, are we really, are we listening to what our clients are saying? And are we listening to what they're not saying? How else does this come up?

Katie Caswell:
Well, I mean, I think that was a great example of what they're not saying. They're not saying I'm nervous, I'm scared. And depending on how long you've been working with someone, they could be really hesitant. Say those words to you. This is someone I just met. And this is a super deep fear that not even my husband, brother, sister, mother, you know, daughter knows about. So why am I going to tell a stranger that I'm concerned that I can't have pasta Fridays? Right? So the not hearing what they said. Um, but as, as far as the, the listening, if we, and people do this, when they're like at a party and they're nervous about the conversation, they spend a lot of time forecasting in their head. Okay, well, what, it's my turn to talk. I've got this great story about this. And by the time it's their turn to talk.

Katie Caswell:
They haven't been listening and they don't know that the conversation has moved on so, so we, I think as health coaches, we do that. Okay. I don't want there to be silence on my health coaching call because you know, radio silence is bad. They're gonna think, I don't know what I'm talking about. So rather than take a second to gather thoughts, we are trying to figure out what's gonna fill that space. And we miss something. We miss something that the client has said, or we miss something that they specifically don't say. So if you say, how is your day? Oh, it's great. You know, I went to the coffee shop and I didn't eat the blueberry muffin. And you know, then I went to work and it was really, you know, stressful. And there were a lot of stressful things that happens. And then I went home. Okay. So why are they telling me they didn't eat the muffin?

Katie Caswell:
And what happened at work that they're not telling me about? Cause they rushed through that. So in my head, I'm thinking something probably happened at work and they want me to praise them for not eating the muffin. And I'm not really quick to praise people because that's not my role. I don't want people to become dependent on my praise when it's their praise. So, I might ask them how they felt about not about skipping the muffin. And then they might say, oh, I felt so good. You know, and da, da, da, da. And, but you know, then that kind of turned bad because when I went to work and I know I didn't mention it before, but someone brought in pizza and I had the pizza. Right? So, by listening and hearing what wasn't said and the, the, like what was the reason behind them calling out this particular muffin?

Katie Caswell:
And not just saying, cause maybe as a, as a young health coach, I might have said, oh my gosh, he didn't eat the muffin. That's so amazingly great. Congratulations. I I'm so proud of you. And then they might be really embarrassed to say that they ate the pizza. So then we lose that whole opportunity to talk about, you know, did you have something else for breakfast or did you just have the skinny mocha latte? Um, or the nonfat decaf, whatever it was, um, because maybe they're hungry and that's why they had the pizza cuz they didn't have something, you know? So figuring out where people are coming from, what things are going through their head, what they've learned in the past and what you have to kind of break down. I feel like that is a big part of practicing coaching practicing. Oh, where did I go wrong on that one? Wow. That session, I thought it was going really great. I was giving them all this pat on the back and they were feeling great and then they left and, and then they canceled so we miss that opportunity to give them what they need because they're trying to hide it from us cuz they want us to be proud.

Michelle Leotta:
Yes. And I mean, maybe this is gonna be more true for some people than others, but I think that's a really good point. People are always gonna try to tell you what you, they think you wanna hear or what's gonna make them look good. Right. And being able to just kind of hone in and say, what's up with that muffin thing, you know, such a small detail, but we're asking about, and I wanted to also, um, add to that, that sometimes I'll notice what they're not saying less about, um, what, what the words are or aren't and more about how, how they're communicating. So there have been times that a client just unloads like diarrhea of the mouth on me, blah. And they've told me about 500 facts about their day. And it's really useful for me to kind of breathe and reflect back. I, I notice you're talking extremely quickly.

Michelle Leotta:
How are you feeling?

Katie Caswell:
Yes.

Michelle Leotta:
And that has nothing to do with anything that they just shared with me, you know, but we can do that as a coach. We can flip the script, we can reflect back what we're hearing, what we're feeling like a I'll even say, I'm just getting this vibe right now. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting a vibe that, and then I just say what I think I'm feeling and I just kind of drop it there and then we just can play with that for a while. So, there's so many ways to have these conversations. Um, we have a couple questions coming in, but we're running a little short on time. So one more time. I wanna remind you that we have a webinar coming up in a couple of weeks to talk about the art of coaching. You can sign up for that at healthcoachpower.com/artofcoaching.

Michelle Leotta:
We're also doing part two of this topic next week here on the show. And we're gonna be hitting on more specific examples that health coaches are making during client sessions. So this has been useful. Join us same place, same time next week. And we're gonna go through more of these, but let me take like one or two questions for today. Leanne was saying, how do we feel about taking notes during the session? Leanne says that she does it in practice better while on video. What are your thoughts on that, Katie?

Katie Caswell:
Oh, so many questions. So, so much right in there. Um, so this is something that I do wanna mention. I do not always do a video call with my clients and I know Michelle, you do not either. There are times, especially in the beginning where I want them to see my caring, gaze and to connect visually. But I have found that clients are way more likely to tell me something if they don't have to look me in the eye. So a zoom call without video, a telephone call, those are very, very helpful. But as far as taking notes, I take a lot of notes. I do it with a pencil. I don't do it typing. I have had clients who seem not happy that I'm not okay with that. And sometimes I'll say, yep, I'm just taking some notes.

Katie Caswell:
Cause I don't wanna forget anything about this. I don't like recording calls cause I think people are guarded. So I do like writing down what I think is important. So I will encourage them to take notes as well. Um, I tried doing the typing thing at one point and I found it distracting, distracting to me, distracting to the client and I wanted to get all the words and I don't think getting all the words is very useful. I think the things that, that you're compelled to take notes on those are the important things as you see them. Um, I also like asking the clients to take notes so that they write down the important things as they see them. And then I'll ask the clients to share that with me. And a lot of times they're not the same, but that's a window for like our, for our next call for our next conversation. So finding something that works for you is important, but I do think you have to know your client and how they're reacting to it as well, Leanne.

Michelle Leotta:
And as a good follow up question to that, um, with son is asking, do you send summaries? So you were mentioning that. And I really like this idea of making clients responsible for themselves. And one way that we do that is encouraging them to write down the things that they're going to do. They can write down the name of the book that you just said off the top of your head. Uh, I'm not going to spoon feed it to them because there's gonna be a day I'm here to do that. Right. And they need to take responsibility. So with that I know summaries at the end of the session can first of all, take up a lot of extra time. I literally never do them. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's my truth. What about you, Katie?

Katie Caswell:
Yeah, I don't summarize what, what we've talked about. I've encouraged clients to take notes. I am taking notes and they do know that I will, if something has come up organically during the course of the conversation that they want to do, I will at the end say, okay. So from what I got from today, I think this, and I will call it homework. My clients are good with that. They like having a little task in front of them. So I'll say, sounds like you wanted to practice drinking more water. Does that sound like a good homework assignment? And you can report back to me if you want to, you can put it. And I do use practice better as well. And I will offer a task. I'm like, do you want me to send you a task every day about the drinking more water, but summarizing our whole conversation? No, no it, I only do 30 minute calls. So there is no time for that. We get to the meat of everything. Um, and then it's up to them. If there's something that they don't think was covered or that they want to underscore to get back with me for that.

Michelle Leotta:
Katie, thank you so much for joining us today to just start dipping our toe into this topic. There's so much more to talk about. Thank you all for joining us. And we will see you next week to talk about a few more of these mistakes so that we can all become better at this craft that we are able to make such an impact with if we're doing it the right way. So this is very exciting. We're glad you are here. We'll see you all next week.

Katie Caswell:
Thanks everyone. Bye bye.

Michelle Leotta:
Bye.